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April 11, 2009
Turkey, Present and Past by Yücel Güçlü Middle East Quarterly Spring 2009, pp. 35-42 The debate over what happened to Armenians in World War I-era Ottoman Anatolia continues to polarize historians and politicians. Armenian historians argue that Ottoman forces killed more than one million Armenians in a deliberate act of genocide.[1] Other historians-most famously Bernard Lewis and Guenter Lewy-acknowledge that hundreds of thousands of Armenians died but question whether this was a deliberate act of genocide or rather an outgrowth of fighting and famine.[2] In recent decades, the debate has shifted from academic to legislative grounds. In 2001, the French parliament voted to recognize an Armenian genocide.[3] In 2007, U.S. political leaders narrowly averted an Armenian genocide resolution in the House of Representatives. While Armenian activists lobby politicians to recognize an Armenian genocide formally, which is likely to be a first step toward a demand for collective reparations, and genocide studies scholars seek to close the book on the Armenian narrative, it is ironic that many of the archives that contain documentation from the period remain untapped. The Richness of Ottoman Archives
millets). These run through World War I and contain valuable information on the question of Turkish-Armenian relations. In 1989, the Başbakanlık Osmanlı Arşivleri (the Ottoman Archives division of the Prime Minister's Office) in Istanbul fully opened its doors to scholars regardless of their nationality or subject of research. The Ottoman Empire's central state archives originally consisted of two groups of documents: the records of the Imperial Council and of the Grand Vizier's office. From time to time, the state added other collections, for example, the records of the finance departments and the Cadastral Survey Office. There are approximately 150 million documents that span every period and region of the Ottoman realm in the stacks and vaults of the Ottoman Archives. Each day, new collections in these Ottoman archives are opened to researchers. All these extensive records are well preserved and organized. The first published catalog of Ottoman archival holdings appeared in 1955 and consisted of ninety pages of archival inventory and commentary.[5] Archivist Attila Çetin followed in 1979 with a more extensive catalog, which is also available in Italian.[6] As the classifying and organizing of the archives continued, the catalog grew. The 1992 edition is 634 pages long. The expanded 1995 compilation provides access to even more documents. Revised editions are to be forthcoming from time to time, as more detailed descriptions become available for the various fonds or individual record groups.[7] Ottoman archival documentation constitutes an unequaled trove of information about how people lived from the fifteenth through the early twentieth centuries in a territory now comprised of twenty-two nations. İlber Ortaylı, director of the Topkapı Palace Museum at Istanbul, argues that the history of the Ottoman Empire should not be written without Ottoman sources.[8] He is not alone in this. His position is buttressed by a number of specialists in the study of the Ottoman state and society. Albert Hourani, for example, the late British scholar of Middle Eastern affairs, argued that his best advice to history students considering Middle East specialization would be to "learn Ottoman Turkish well and learn also how to use Ottoman documents, since the exploitation of Ottoman archives, located in Istanbul and in smaller cities and towns, is perhaps the most important task of the next generation."[9] The Archives and the ArmeniansThere are few comprehensive sources about Armenian life in Anatolia outside of Ottoman archival sources. Diplomatic records, such as those cited by Armenian historian Vahakn Dadrian, as the basis for discussions among genocide scholars are spotty and intertwined with wartime politics.[10] The Ottoman Ministry of the Interior (Dahiliye Nezareti) was the government department directing and supervising the relocation and resettlement of the Armenian population. The collection of the ministry documents covers the period from 1866 to 1922 and consists of 4,598 registers or notebooks. It is classified according to twenty-one subcollections, according to office of origin. Among the available documents in the Ottoman archives are several dozen registers containing the records of the deliberations and actions of the Council of Ministers, which set policies, received reports, and discussed problems that arose regarding the relocations and other wartime events. The minutes of its meetings, deliberations, resolutions, and decisions are bound in 224 volumes covering the years 1885 through 1922. These registers include each and every decree pertaining to the decision to relocate the Ottoman Armenians away from the war zones during World War I. The Records Office of the Sublime Porte (Babıali Evrak Odası) also contains substantial documentation, including the correspondence between the grand vizier and the ministries, as well as the central government and the provinces that can illuminate the events of 1915.[11] It is ironic, therefore, as politicians seek to deliberate on questions of history, that few historians investigating Armenian issues have actually consulted the Ottoman archives. As Australian historian Jeremy Salt has explained,
There is little explanation as to why more historians do not consult the Ottoman archives. They are open to all scholars. Bernard Lewis, Cleveland Dodge Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, who has worked extensively in the Ottoman archives since 1949, has argued that "the Ottoman archives are in the care of a competent and devoted staff who are always willing to place their time and knowledge at the disposal of the visiting scholar, with a personal helpfulness and courtesy that will surprise those with purely Western experience. [These records] are open to all who can read them."[13] The late Stanford Shaw, Professor Emeritus of Turkish and Judeo-Turkish History at the University of California, Los Angeles, also spoke highly of the helpfulness of the archivists.[14] He argued that the sheer amount of new material available removed any excuse for any scholar investigating various nationalist revolts not to spend time examining the new sources.[15] Even Taner Akçam of University of Minnesota, one of the most vocal proponents of Armenian genocide claims, noted the improvement in the working conditions of the archives. In a recent article, he thanked the staff and especially the deputy director-general of state archives for their help and openness during his last visit.[16] The archivists are now helpful to all researchers, not only those pursuing research which supports the Turkish government's line. Turkish Military ArchivesThe archives of the Turkish General Staff Military History and Strategic Studies Directorate in Ankara (Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Genelkurmay Askeri Tarih ve Stratejik Etüt Başkanlığı Arşivleri) provide a military perspective. Indeed, more than the Ottoman Archives in the Prime Minister's Office, this repository provides a rich trove of information about internal conditions in the empire, operations of the Ottoman army, and the Special Organization (Teşkilat-ı Mahsusa), somewhat equivalent to the Ottoman special forces, for the period 1914-22.[17] The World War I and War of Independence archives alone number over five and a half million documents spread among Turkish General Staff Division reports and War Ministry files. Division 1 (Operations) contains military operations plans and orders, operations and situation reports, maps and overlays, general staff orders, mobilization instructions and orders, organizational orders, training and exercise instructions, spot combat reports. Division 2 (Intelligence) contains intelligence estimates and reports and orders of battle. Divisions 3 and 4 (Logistics) contain files concerning procurement, animals, munitions, transportation, rations, and accounting. The Ministry of War files contain the General Command's ciphered cables to military units as well as the papers of the infantry, fortress artillery, and other divisions. Vehip Pasha's Third Army (Erzurum), Jemal Pasha's Fourth Army (Damascus), and Ali İhsan Pasha's Sixth Army (Baghdad) are included among the staff files. These also include the Lightning Armies and Caucasian Armies groups.[18] The cataloging and microfilming of the military archives repository up to the end of 1922 is complete. Once-secret documents should provide new information on the Armenian issue.[19] In addition to the microfilmed documents, the Turkish General Staff Military History and Strategic Studies Directorate publishes volumes of documents from its collection, including Latin alphabet transliteration of all documents.[20] Justin McCarthy, professor of Middle Eastern history and demographer at the University of Louisville/Kentucky, one of the few Western scholars to have done systematic research in the Ottoman archives, has written that the "reports of Ottoman soldiers and officials were not political documents or public relations exercises. They were secret internal reports in which responsible men relayed to their governments what they believed to be true."[21] Indeed, the military records have already called into question conventional wisdom about the Special Organization, namely, the organization's involvement in the Armenian relocations. [22] Other Ankara ResourcesThe Turkish Historical Society (Türk Tarih Kurumu) at Ankara is also open to the public. The society houses private collections relating to strategy and political matters in the twentieth century, which include the papers of World War I-era war minister Enver Pasha together with those of his chief aide-de-camp and brother-in-law, Kazım Orbay. The Enver Pasha collection, donated in 1972 by his daughter Mahpeyker Enver, consists of 789 single, disparate items of handwritten notes, memoranda, reports, military records, cards and invitations, dispatches, letters of appreciation of colleagues and opponents, photographic albums, topographic maps, charts, private correspondence, diaries, and miscellany for the period 1914-22. There are no restrictions on access to these.[23] Because in the early decades of the twentieth century it was customary for officials to keep their papers upon their departure, these remain a relatively rare resource. Orbay's papers add additional insight because they enable historians to gauge which issues most occupied the Ottoman Empire's highest ranking military official of the time. Few scholars have used this last collection perhaps because they remain unaware of it.[24] The National Library (Milli Kütüphane) at Ankara houses thousands of Muslim court records, most of which were transferred from local museums and offices scattered around Turkey. These records contain a vast array of information concerning imperial administration, city government, the affairs of townspeople and villagers and deal with almost every aspect of the lives of the subjects be it personal status, taxes, loans, sales, price regulations, complaints, flight, or theft. Any matter requiring official resolution, registration, verification, or adjudication was potentially the domain of the Muslim judge (kadı) even when the matters applied to non-Muslims, such as Armenian Christians.[25] Many Turkish historians have employed Muslim court records extensively for Anatolian regional studies, but they remain relatively untapped by Armenian historians.[26] Armenian Archives
Sole reference to Ottoman archives will not and should not satisfy historians; a full study of the Armenians during World War I should consider material from all sides in a conflict. The Armenian community maintains a number of archives. The archives in Watertown, Massachusetts, contain repositories from the Dashnak Party (Dashnaksutiun, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation) and the First Republic of Armenia. Both of the above together with the archives of the Armenian patriarchate in Jerusalem and the Catholicosate, the seat of the supreme religious leader of the Armenian people, in Echmiadzin, Armenia, remain closed to non-Armenian researchers.
Many scholars writing on the Armenian question utilize Britain's National Archives (formerly the Public Record Office) in Kew Gardens. While the British government has made available many of their diplomats' reports for study, much material from the British occupation of Istanbul (1919-22) and elsewhere in Anatolia following World War I remains closed to researchers under the Official Secrets Act and are only partially available in the archives of the government of India in Delhi. An International Historians' CommissionHistory cannot be decided by politicians weighing either constituent concerns or emotions more than evidence. Nor should the debate on history be closed while the existing narrative utilizes only a small portion of the source material. The same holds true not only for Armenian historians but also for their Turkish counterparts and others. Rather, historians should work together to consider all source material, both in Armenian and Turkish archives. Each should be open fully. Cherry-picking documents to "prove" preconceived ideas and to ignore documents that undercut theses is poor history and, in a politicized atmosphere, can do far more harm than good.
On April 10, 2005, Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan extended an invitation to Armenian president Robert Kocharian to establish a joint commission consisting of historians and other experts to study the developments and events of 1915, not only in the archives of Turkey and Armenia but also in those of relevant third countries such as Russia, Britain, France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the United States, and to share their findings with the public.[28] Ninety-seven members of the Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly at Strasbourg signed a declaration calling on Armenia to accept the Turkish proposal.[29]
It is unfortunate that the Armenian government has failed to accept the joint commission, for without joint consideration of all evidence, the wounds of the past will not heal and, indeed, when an incomplete narrative enters the political realm, the consequences can be grave Founded in 1990, the Middle East Forum became an independent organization in 1994. The Forum is a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved April 27, 1998. For more information, view a copy of the IRS letter of determination. The Middle East Forum, a think tank, seeks to define and promote American interests in the Middle East. It defines U.S. interests to include fighting radical Islam, whether terroristic or lawful; working for Palestinian acceptance of Israel; improving the management of U.S. democracy efforts; reducing energy dependence on the Middle East; more robustly asserting U.S. interests vis--vis Saudi Arabia; and countering the Iranian threat. The Forum also works to improve Middle East studies in North America.
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![]() written by bobby, April 12, 2009
It took me to read the first sentence about "Armenian historians" vs. "others - most notably..." to understand the "untapped" agenda of the article. Seeing the author is a "counselor" at the Turkish Emba*sy in Washington, D.C. just confirmed my suspicions - this is yet another example of Turkish government's primitive ploy to present the Armenian Genocide as something historically unclear. Well, you guys better give more credit to the readers, and stop this shameful campaign. Everybody is laughing at you - even your so-called "friends" which use this tragic issue to enrich themselves...
written by Lusavorich, April 12, 2009
I'm a bit confused by this Turkish author's lack of understanding of Turkish law. Anybody who even suggests that an Armenian genocide occurred is subject to prosecution under Turkish law. This is one very good reason why the Ottoman archives remain untapped. The murder of Hrant Dink is another example of why nobody would want to raise the issue.
Even if some foreign researcher was brave enough to search through the Ottoman archives (in the misguided belief that his foreign status would protect him), the Turks have had almost 100 years to sanitize those archives and remove any incriminating evidence. But nobody even needs to look at history to see that the Turks are extremely determined to totally wipe Armenians off the face of the earth. The blockade of Armenia, a tiny landlocked country, by Turkey, is a clear sign of past Turkish actions and future Turkish intent. There is no dispute here that needs to be resolved by searching the Ottoman archives. There are plenty of archives in the rest of the world documenting Turkish atrocities. written by Kyle Montrose, April 12, 2009
I'm a bit confused by this Turkish author's lack of understanding of Turkish law. Anybody who even suggests that an Armenian genocide occurred is subject to prosecution under Turkish law. This is one very good reason why the Ottoman archives remain untapped. The murder of Hrant Dink is another example of why nobody would want to raise the issue.
Even if some foreign researcher was brave enough to search through the Ottoman archives (in the misguided belief that his foreign status would protect him), the Turks have had almost 100 years to sanitize those archives and remove any incriminating evidence. But nobody even needs to look at history to see that the Turks are extremely determined to totally wipe Armenians off the face of the earth. The blockade of Armenia, a tiny landlocked country, by Turkey, is a clear sign of past Turkish actions and future Turkish intent. There is no dispute here that needs to be resolved by searching the Ottoman archives. There are plenty of archives in the rest of the world documenting Turkish atrocities. Mainstream historians throughout the world do not dispute the facts. The only people who dispute the facts are Turks and people on the Turkish payroll. written by Ahram al-Yardum, April 13, 2009
While Mr Güçlü makes a reasonable point in suggesting something more may be learned from further historical studies, especially British archives, I think he overstates the case when suggesting what remains will really reshape the debate. What freezes the academic stances on this issue is not, of course, a lack of data, but on how to interpret what we have now. There are, to take example, trial records in which Ottoman ex-officials admit outright to their part in a centrally-planned extremination campaign. The trouble is that the translation was made by V Dadrian, an Armenian historian, and by Taner Akcam, a Turkish historian reviled in Turkey for his distinctly un-nationalistic stance on the issue. You will note that Mr Güçlü, an employee of the Turkish Emba*sy, does not even mention his name. Other Turkish historians gloss over the trial documents by invalidating the entire trial as a sham and closing their eyes to the statements made in its context.
Another issue Mr Güçlü fails to address is the language barrier. Very few Turkish historians know any Armenian and so their efforts at obtaining and reading Armenian documents is hampered, and they have frequently become frustrated by a lack of a*sistance at archives in America and Yerevan. The same goes for scholars wishing to consult documents in Ottoman Turkish, which is a form of Turkish very different in form (not to mention that it was written in Arabic script) than Today's Turkish. I believe I am correct in saying that the difference is analogous to Middle (e.g. Chaucerian) vs. modern English. Mr Güçlü, instead of trying to cast away the hot potato (which is a bad habit many Turkish bureaucrats have), would be advised to, on behalf of the Turkish Emba*sy, sponsor cla*ses in Armenian and Ottoman Turkish language for scholars wishing to pursue the issue. He should also lobby to dismantle Article 301 so that the many Turkish historians who wish to pursue it without fear of imprisonment may do so. written by Marat Akopian. PhD, April 13, 2009
Yücel Güçlü claims that the Western diplomatic records are not sufficient for the study of the Armenian Genocide and that without in-depth research into the Ottoman archives all “Armenian claims†of genocide are one-sided. But here is what Guenter Lewy, one of the “historians†mentioned approvingly by the author, said in a recent interview with the Turkish newspaper Zaman (April 24, 2006, “No Evidence of Ottoman Intent to Destroy Armenian Communityâ€). In response to the question regarding his proficiency in Ottoman Turkish, Lewy said the following:
“I am not a Middle East expert (even though I lived 8 years in the Middle East) and I do not read Ottoman Turkish. However, the archival materials and other original sources in Western languages are more than adequate to research this topic. The reports of American, German, Austrian consular officials who were on the spot in Anatolia, as well as the accounts of foreign missionaries who witnessed the deportations are richer and better sources than what is contained in the Turkish archives.†The propaganda campaign that accompanied the publication of Lewy's book "A Disputed Genocide" made much of his presumed first-hand research into Ottoman archives. Then it turned out, the claim was false and Lewy was quickly backtracking. But how come when a denier like Guenter Lewy claims that Western archives alone are sufficient to deny the fact of the Armenian Genocide, he gets approving nods from Yücel Güçlü and other Turkish propagandists and is even accorded the status of a “famous historian,†but when a multitude of other scholars including Vahagn Dadrian use the same Western diplomatic records to prove beyond doubt the intent of the Ottoman government to “exterminate the Armenian race†(as American Amba*sador Henry Morgenthau put it in one of his cables to Washington), these same records are not trustworthy because they are “spotty and intertwined with wartime politics� Should not the Turkish propagandists and their “fellow travelers†in the West take a more consistent line before they even try to sell their falsehoods to the Western public? And regarding that cheap propagandistic shot that only “Armenian historians†argue that the killing of more than a million Armenians during World War I was a deliberate act of genocide, just check the response of the International a*sociation of Genocide Scholars of June 13, 2005, to the call by the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan for an “impartial study by historians†of the events (http://www.genocidewatch.org/T...-13-05.htm). Of course, you can always claim the IAGS is in the pocket of the "Armenian lobby" ... written by Marat Akopian. PhD, April 13, 2009
Yücel Güçlü claims that the Western diplomatic records are not sufficient for the study of the Armenian Genocide and that without in-depth research into the Ottoman archives all “Armenian claims†of genocide are one-sided. But here is what Guenter Lewy, one of the “historians†mentioned approvingly by the author, said in a recent interview with the Turkish newspaper Zaman (April 24, 2006, “No Evidence of Ottoman Intent to Destroy Armenian Communityâ€). In response to the question regarding his proficiency in Ottoman Turkish, Lewy said the following:
“I am not a Middle East expert (even though I lived 8 years in the Middle East) and I do not read Ottoman Turkish. However, the archival materials and other original sources in Western languages are more than adequate to research this topic. The reports of American, German, Austrian consular officials who were on the spot in Anatolia, as well as the accounts of foreign missionaries who witnessed the deportations are richer and better sources than what is contained in the Turkish archives.†The propaganda campaign that accompanied the publication of Lewy's book "A Disputed Genocide" made much of his presumed first-hand research into Ottoman archives. Then it turned out, the claim was false and Lewy was quickly backtracking. But how come when a denier like Guenter Lewy claims that Western archives alone are sufficient to deny the fact of the Armenian Genocide, he gets approving nods from Yücel Güçlü and other Turkish propagandists and is even accorded the status of a “famous historian,†but when a multitude of other scholars including Vahagn Dadrian use the same Western diplomatic records to prove beyond doubt the intent of the Ottoman government to “exterminate the Armenian race†(as American Amba*sador Henry Morgenthau put it in one of his cables to Washington), these same records are not trustworthy because they are “spotty and intertwined with wartime politics� Should not the Turkish propagandists and their “fellow travelers†in the West take a more consistent line before they even try to sell their falsehoods to the Western public? And regarding that cheap propagandistic shot that only “Armenian historians†argue that the killing of more than a million Armenians during World War I was a deliberate act of genocide, just check the response of the International a*sociation of Genocide Scholars of June 13, 2005, to the call by the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan for an “impartial study by historians†of the events (http://www.genocidewatch.org/T...-13-05.htm). Of course, you can always claim the IAGS is in the pocket of the "Armenian lobby" ... written by akasya, April 14, 2009
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*The Armenians are sure that Armenian genocide really occured and claim that Turkey does not want to face her history. On the other hand, they persistently refuse Turkey’s suggestions to discuss these events together with historians from both sides, in spite of this claim. For example: *If Turks committed a genocide which is the greatest crime of humanity and if Turkey really avoids of facing its history, then why do the Armenians persistently refuse Turkey’s suggestions to discuss these events together with historians from both sides and other countries. For example: *In 2004, the Viennese Armenian-Turkish Platform (VAT) was founded to exchange documents about the 1915 events by Austrian, Turkish and Armenian historians. After receiving 100 Turkish documents, the Armenians abondened the project refusing to continue to fulfil their commitments and afterwards the Armenian foreign minister announced that they did not want to discuss the 1915 events with historians. *Armenia refused the Turkish prime minister's and the Turkish a*sembly's invitation announced on April 13, 2005 which suggested to establish a Joint Commission composed of historians from both sides and discuss the events which took place during the 1st World War. *Turkey sent full page ads to five popular newspapers of the United States (US) calling on Armenia to ‘bring light the events of 1915 together with Turkey and to establish a joint commission composed of historians from both sides in addition to historians from other nations’, in April 2007. *The Turkish prime minister repeated the same invitation on February 2008 , in Munich at the 44th Security Conference where the Armenian Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Oskanian also attended? In neither of these invitations was there any precondition, unlike it is claimed by the Armenians. *Why did the Armenian historian Sarafyan, who accepted the invitation of the then chief of Turkish History Foundation, Halacoglu, for cooperation to investigate Harput events, abandon the project, after talking the Armenian diaspora? written by akasya, April 14, 2009
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*The Ottoman and Turkish archives are open, unlike it is claimed by the diaspora. http://www.ankara.edu.tr/english/yazi.php?yad=36. http://www.tsk.mil.tr/ENGLISH/...ents.html; http://louisville.edu/a-s/history/turks/Documents2.pdf; http://louisville.edu/a-s/hist...ents3.pdf; http://www.devletarsivleri.gov...kitap=991. Even, Armenian historian Ara Sarafian from Gomitas Institute and Hilmar Kaiser searched the Ottoman archives (www.sarigelinbelgeseli.com) *In spite of this, why are the Armenian archives including the one in Zoryan Armenian Institute in Boston closed? Both Turkish government and Turkish History Foundation offered the Armenians to open these archives; but the directors of the Zoryan Institute replied that they did not have enough money to open the archives. Turkish government and Turkish History Foundation promised financial support.Why did the Armenians refuse this suggestion too? (Nüzhet Kandemir, http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/418517.asp). Note that Zoryan Institute has quite enough money to provide financial support for Taner Akçam who advocated the Armenian claims while working in Minnesota University until recently. Why are the Armenians terribly afraid of establishment of historical joint commissions (See the news entitled ‘RA foreign minister didn’t say Armenia agrees to form commission of historians’ on November 26, 2008 in Panarmenian and ‘Dashnaks warn Sarkisian over Armenian genocide study’ on July 9, 2008 in Armenia Liberty; http://www.hairenik.com/armeni...ry001.html Is it not striking that Sarafian, the head of the London-based Gomidas Institute, said Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s offer to Armenia to establish a commission of historians to resolve the Armenian issue was positive, but Armenia was the wrong address. He also said that freedom of expression for historians in Armenia is limited and the genocide issue has become a political tool. http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/eng....asp?scr=1 If a genocide had really occured, why did Brian Ardouny of the Armenian a*sembly of America announce ‘We don’t need to prove the genocide historically, because it has already been accepted politically’? Why did the chief of the Armenian Archives in Armenia tell that they were not interested in the achives, but all they are interested is the world’s public opinion. In your life, have you ever seen a criminal who persistently calls the victim to bring his evidences? And, have you ever seen a victim who pa*sionately accuses somebody of committing crime and giving him great harm but strictly avoids of bringing his proofs before the referees or going to court, and tells that he need not prove that person’s guilt, because the community has already accepted him as guilty? In this situation would you not ask if you are living in 5000 BC? What else should the Turks do to face their history? Is it Turkey/Turks or Armenia and those who support them who are terribly afraid of facing their history? written by truthinhistory, April 14, 2009
BIAS & BIGOTRY IN THE TERM “ARMENIAN GENCOIDE†(1 of 2)
If one cherishes values like fairness, objectivity, truth, and honesty, then one should really use the term “Turkish-Armenian conflictâ€. Asking one “Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide†shows anti-Turkish bias. The question should be re-phrased “What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?†Turks believe it was an inter communal warfare mostly fought by Turkish and Armenian irregulars, a civil war which is engineered, provoked, and waged by the Armenian revolutionaries, with active support from Russia, England, France, and others, all eyeing the vast territories of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, against a backdrop of a raging world war. Armenian, on the other hand, ignoring Armenian agitation, raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, and Turkish victims killed by Armenians, claim that it was a one way genocide. GENOCIDE ALLEGATIONS IGNORE “THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT†While some in unsuspecting public may be forgiven for taking the blatant and ceaseless Armenian propaganda at face value and believing Armenian falsifications merely because they are repeated so often, it is difficult and painful for someone like me, the son of Turkish survivors on both maternal and paternal sides. Those seemingly endless “War years†of 1912-1922 brought wide-spread death and destruction on to all Ottoman citizens. No Turkish family was left touched, mine included. Those nameless, faceless Turkish victims are killed for a second time today with politically motivated and baseless charges of Armenian genocide. ALLEGATIONS OF ARMENIAN GENOCIDE ARE RACIST AND DISHONEST HISTORY They are racist because they ignore the Turkish dead: about 3 million during WWI; more than half a million of them at the hands of Armenian nationalists. And the allegations of Armenian genocide are dishonest because they simply dismiss “THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICTâ€: 1) TUMULT (as in numerous Armenian armed uprisings between 1882 and 1920) 2) TERRORISM (by well-armed Armenian nationalists and militias victimizing Ottoman-Muslims between 1882-1920) 3) TREASON (Armenians joining the invading enemy armies as early as 1914 and lasting until 1921) 4) TERRITORIAL DEMANDS (where Armenians were a minority, not a majority, attempting to establish Greater Armenia, the would-be first apartheid of the 20th Century with a Christian minority ruling over a Muslim majority ) 5) TURKISH SUFFERING AND LOSSES (i.e. those caused by the Armenian nationalists: 524,000 Muslims, mostly Turks, met their tragic end at the hands of Armenian revolutionaries during WWI, per Turkish Historical Society. This figure is not to be confused with more than 2.5 million Muslim dead who lost their lives due to non-Armenian causes during WWI. Grand total: more than 3 million, according to Prof. Justin McCarthy.) 6) TERESET (temporary resettlement) triggered by the first five T’s above and amply documented as such; not to be equated to the Armenian misrepresentations as genocide.) written by truthinhistory, April 14, 2009 VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING (2 of 2) Those who take the Armenian “allegations†of genocide at face value seem to also ignore the following: 1- Genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention (Like all proper laws, it is not retroactive to 1915.) 2- Genocide verdict can only be given by a "competent court" after "due process" where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined. 3- For a genocide verdict, the accusers must prove “intent†at a competent court and after due process. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, mis-representations, exaggerations, forgeries, and “otherâ€. 4- Such a "competent court" was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due process.) 5- Genocide claim is political, not historical or factual. It reflects bias against Turks. Therefore, the term genocide must be used with the qualifier "alleged", for scholarly objectivity and truth. LYNCHING OF THE TURKS BY ARMENIANS For any American president to recognize the Armenian claim as genocide, therefore, will deeply insult Turkish-Americans as well as Turks around the globe and destroy the excellent relations currently enjoyed between the U.S. and Turkey. It will, no doubt, please Armenians but disappoint, insult, and outrage Turkey, one of America's closest allies since the Korean War of 1950-53. Turks stood shoulder to shoulder with Americans in Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and more. American gratitude and thanks will appear to come (because of the Armenian lobby) in the form of the worst insult that can be dished out to an entire nation. History is not a matter of "conviction, consensus, political resolutions, or propaganda." History is a matter of research, peer review, thoughtful debate, and honest scholarship. Even historians, by definition, cannot decide on a genocide verdict, which is reserved for a "competent court" with its legal expertise and due process. Just like cops collect evidence for prosecutors, judges, and juries to sort out, historians research, study, and unearth data but the judging is left to the "competent tribunal" on genocide. What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. Values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet. Unprovoked , unjustified, and unfair defamation of Turkey, one of America's closest allies in the troubled Middle East, in order to appease some nagging Armenian activists runs counter to American interests. Those who claim genocide verdict today, based on the much discredited Armenian evidence, are actually engaging in "conviction and execution without due process". Last time I looked in the dictionary, that was the definition of “lynch mobsâ€. Isn’t it time to stop fighting the First World War and give peace a chance? written by 123456, April 15, 2009
Regarding this article:
Maybe Yucel Guclu should bring to this 'historical commission' the new book just published by Turkish writer Murat Bardakci were he chronicles Talaat Pasha's personal writings that were given to him by Talaat's own widow before she pa*sed. In this new book, Mr. Bardakci showed that Talaat actually kept accurate records of Armenian death counts. In it, Talaat writes that from 1915-1916, in one short year 927,000 Armenians were wiped off the official Ottoman records. Someone at the very top of the Ottoman government keeping accurate death tolls shows intimate familiarity of the extent, intention and execution of the Armenian genocide. Lets be clear: 1.ALL GENOCIDE HISTORIANS AGREE IT WAS A GENOCIDE. This includes the 126 member of The International a*sociation of Genocide Scholars, the foremost experts on Genocide, period! Justin McCarthy is a Turkish sponsored Armenian Genocide Denialist very similar to Historian David Irving who denies the Holocaust. McCarthy has been label as 'junk historian" in academic circles. He isn't taken very seriously. 2. Rafael Lemkin coined the term Genocide specifically for the Armenians and the now decimated Jews of Europe at the close of ww2. The Armenians were fresh on his mind because it was, after all, only 25 years prior to the Holocaust that the Turks implemented the Final Armenian Solution. He found abundant similarities between the two genocides as most all historians do. Therfore the word 'genocide' is intimately tied to the Armenian Genocide. 3. Turks forget that there were plenty of first hand eyewitnesses including our own U.S Amba*sador who had direct contact with Tallat and continually cabled the US State department warning of "Race "Extermination". One only needs to go as far as our own U.S National Archives were there are 40,000 Pages depicting the systematic extermination of the Armenian civilian population by the Turkish army all cabled in real time. 4. There are over 21 countries that call it, recognize it and commemorate it as the Armenian Genocide. This includes France, Canada, Switzerland and Russia and most importantly Austria, the Turks own ally during the Armenian Genocide who witnessed it first hand. The label of genocide is a heavy label. Yet we are to believe according to Turks, that these countries acknowledgment is baseless Armenian propaganda and or racist? Hardly. IT IS THE TRUTH! 5. Apparently it is the Turks don't want the truth. You can't openly discuss the Armenian genocide in Turkey as the government fully sensors it's scholars. Article 301 puts an end to that. Yet the Turks want an independent commission. What a joke.The Armenians, however, have always said that the two countries should form an inter governmental commission to discuss all matters including the Armenian genocide 'without preconditions'. Yet it is the Turks that want Armenians to forget the genocide first and return ancient Armenian lands back to Azerbayjan before anything. Both an impossible occurance. 6. As far as the George W Bush quote, again lets be clear. Pres Bush acknowledged the Armenian Genocide before becoming president. However, after the Turks pulled their amba*sador and threatened harm to our troops by cutting off supply lines for the Iraq war, the President back peddled and stopped a resolution to rightfully acknowledge the Armenian genocide. The only reason it stopped was because of political blackmail as is the case today. The validity of the Armenian Genocide is and was not in question. 7. Last point. Turks are no allies. They are nothing like Americans. They tried extorting 36 billion US dollars at the start of the Iraq war and settled on 26 Billion US Tax Payer Dollars to only deny pa*sage to our 4th Infantry division causing major harm to our troops. They are the most anti-Semitic anti American state on this planet. Their human right record is next to zero. Turkey's ally is the Government of Sudan who is currently implementing it's own genocide. written by Ergun Kirlikovali, April 15, 2009
DECLARATION BY 69 PROMINENT AMERICAN ACADEMICIANS
The following public declaration, signed by some 69 prominent American Academicians was published in the New York Times and Washington Post on May 19, 1985. *** TO THE MEMBERS OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES May 19, 1985, New York Times & Washington Post The undersigned American academicians who specialize in Turkish, Ottoman and Middle Eastern Studies are concerned that the current language embodied in House Joint Resolution 192 is misleading and/or inaccurate in several respects. Specifically, while fully supporting the concept of a "National Day of Remembrance of Man's Inhumanity to Man," we respectfully take exception to that portion of the text which singles out for special recognition: ". . . the one and one half million people of Armenian ancestry who were victims of genocide perpetrated in Turkey between 1915 and 1923 . . .." Our reservations focus on the use of the words "Turkey' and "genocide" and may be summarized as follows: From the fourteenth century until 1922, the area currently known as Turkey, or more correctly, the Republic of Turkey, was part of the territory encompa*sing the multinational, multi-religious state known as the Ottoman Empire. It is wrong to equate the Ottoman Empire with the Republic of Turkey in the same way that it is wrong to equate the Hapsburg Empire with the Republic of Austria. The Ottoman Empire, which was brought to an end in 1922, by the successful conclusion of the Turkish Revolution which established the present day Republic of Turkey in 1923, incorporated lands and people which today account for more than twenty-five distinct countries in Southeastern Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, only one of which is the Republic of Turkey. The Republic of Turkey bears no responsibility for any events which occurred in Ottoman times, yet by naming 'Turkey' in the Resolution, its authors have implicitly labeled it as guilty of "genocide" it charges transpired between 1915 and 1923; As for the charge of "genocide," no signatory of this statement wishes to minimize the scope of Armenian suffering. We are likewise cognizant that it cannot be viewed as separate from the suffering experienced by the Muslim inhabitants of the region. The weight of evidence so far uncovered points in the direct of serious inter communal warfare (perpetrated by Muslim and Christian irregular forces), complicated by disease, famine, suffering and ma*sacres in Anatolia and adjoining areas during the First World War. Indeed, throughout the years in question, the region was the scene of more or less continuous warfare, not unlike the tragedy which has gone on in Lebanon for the past decade. The resulting death toll among both Muslim and Christian communities of the region was immense. But much more remains to be discovered before historians will be able to sort out precisely responsibility between warring and innocent, and to identify the causes for the events which resulted in the death or removal of large numbers of the eastern Anatolian population, Christian and Muslim alike. Statesmen and politicians make history, and scholars write it. For this process to work scholars must be given access to the written records of the statesmen and politicians of the past. To date, the relevant archives in the Soviet Union, Syria, Bulgaria and Turkey all remain, for the most part, closed to dispa*sionate historians. Until they become available, the history of the Ottoman Empire in the period encompa*sed by H.J. Res. 192 (1915-1923) cannot be adequately known. We believe that the proper position for the United States Congress to take on this and related issues is to encourage full and open access to all historical archives and not to make charges on historical events before they are fully understood. Such charges as those contained H.J. Res. 192 would inevitably reflect unjustly upon the people of Turkey and perhaps set back irreparably progress historians are just now beginning to achieve in understanding these tragic events. As the above comments illustrate, the history of the Ottoman-Armenians is much debated among scholars, many of whom do not agree with the historical a*sumptions embodied in the wording of H.J. Res. 192. By pa*sing the resolution Congress will be attempting to determine by legislation which side of the historical question is correct. Such a resolution, based on historically questionable a*sumptions, can only damage the cause of honest historical inquiry, and damage the credibility of the American legislative process. written by Marat Akopian, PhD, April 15, 2009
A few points regarding the claims made by Turkish propagandists on this thread.
First, the claim that Turkey is America’s reliable ally who has always stood should by shoulder with the United States since the Korean War. Where was Turkey during World War II? Oh, wait a minute, when America and the Allies were locked in the life-and-death struggle with Nazi Germany, Turkey was "neutral" until the last weeks of the war. Actually, it was the kind of "neutrality" that was very friendly to Nazi Germany. Throughout the war Turkey was the primary supplier of chrome to Germany’s armaments industry, an essential component in the production of the whole range of weapons, from aircraft to tanks to rifles which killed millions of Allied troops and civilians. It must have been Hitler's special token of gratitude when at the height of the war, in 1943, he granted the visiting delegation of Turkey's General Staff their request to re-bury the remains of the chief architect of the Armenian Genocide, Mehmet Talaat, from the Turkish cemetery in Berlin to Istanbul. (For readers who do not know the details, Talaat was the minister of the interior of the Ottoman government during World War I, who after the end of the war fled to Berlin where he was eventually a*sa*sinated by Soghomon Tehlirian in 1921.) In his book "Turkish Foreign Policy during the Second World War," Selim Deringil admits that when after Hitler's attack on Poland the British pointed out that "Turkey as an ally was under moral obligation to withhold exports of chrome to Germany ... unfortunately, Turkish foreign policy implied a different attitude to morality, one of always putting the toughest possible case in furtherance of Turkish interests†(p. 27). Hm, ... a "different attitude to morality," nothing more, nothing less. Does this situation sound familiar? Just fast-forward to March 2003 and recall how at the very last moment the Turkish “ally†denied a transit route to American ground forces to enter northern Iraq just because the US did not offer them enough “economic compensation.†Same Turkish attitude to morality when it matters most to their friends and allies. Some things never change in that part of the world, do they? Here’s another interesting fact about how Turkey “helps†the US in Afghanistan. The list of fatalities during the entire period of the operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan does not include a SINGLE (!) Turkish fatality. Check for yourself at http://icasualties.org/oef/. Yes, not one Turkish solder among 1130 Coalition fatalities! So how exactly Turks help Americans fight Taliban and al-Qaida without sustaining a SINGLE fatality? Do they fight … or do they just sit out on the ground hoping and waiting for America to be defeated while their propagandists pull the wool over the eyes of the uninformed American public trumpeting Turkey's "indispensable contribution" to America's effort in Afghanistan? And if you have doubts that Turks do wait and hope that America loses the war, just look at the Pew Report “Global Opinion. The Spread of anti-Americanism.†In fact, Turkey has one of the highest ratings of anti-Americanism in the world! During 2002 and 2004, between 42 and 68 percent of Turkish respondents had ‘highly unfavorable’ view of the United States; another 13 to 18 percent had ‘somewhat unfavorable’ view. It looks like out of every five Turks three or four are not wishing well to their “ally†America, doesn’t it? Why would the US (or anyone else, for that matter) need enemies when it has friends like Turks? written by fehmi colpan, April 15, 2009
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Vratsyan, the last prime minister of Dashnaks who wrote in an article published in December 3 1920 issue of Araç, that they transformed Armenia to an arenna of endless wars with its neighbours for the Entente Powers (RGASPİ fond 80, list 4, file 83, sheet 136) was another chief denier and agent of Turkish government. Armenian Messrs. Ahonian and Hadissian who were the spokesmen of the Armenian delegation of the New Armenian Republic and visited Sultan Mehmet VI, Vahdeddin in Istanbul on September 6, 1918 were also Turkish nationalists. See the telegram sent by Mr Ahorian to the Armenian Prime Minister Kachaznuni: ‘On September 6th, when we were in Selamlik we had an audience. We presented our congratulations on his accession to the throne. We submitted our best wishes for the development of the Empire and its well-being. We stated that the Armenian nation would never forget that it was the Ottoman Government which first conceived the idea of founding an independent Armenia, and recognized it, that the Armenian Government would do everything possible to protect friendly relations between the two countries and to strengthen them. His Majesty thanked us. He stated that he was very happy at seeing the envoys of independenbt and free Armenia, that he wished not only her development , but that she be strong in order to retain her independence. His Majesty is entirely convinced that friendly relations will always exist between the two neighboring countries, Turkey and Armenia, in order that both of them may develop. He concluded his remarks by stating that he was very hapy to see that Armenia had the strength to found an independent state which was able to send envoys to Istanbul, and repeated his best wishes for our country’. (Erich Feigl, A Myth of Terror, Edition Zeitgeschichte Freila*sing, Salzburg, Austria p.97) The Armenian Soviet historian A.A.Lalayan who stated that the Dashnaks displayed extreme courage to ma*sacre Turkish women, children and ill and old people (Contrarevolyutsionnıy ‘Daşnaktsutyun’ İ İmperialisti-çeskaya Voyna 1914-1918 gg.’, Revolyutsionnıy Vostok, No.2-3, p.92, 1936) and who also quoted the following report of a Dashnag officer, Aslem Varaam written in 1920, in Beyazit-Varan was an Armenian denier and he was also hired by the Turkish government . The report of Aslem Varaam was: "I exterminated the Turkish population in Bashar-Gechar without making any exceptions. One some times feels the bullets shouldn't be wasted. So, the most effective way against these dogs is to collect the people who have survived the clashes and dump them in deep holes and crush them under heavy rocks pressed from above, not to let them inhabit this world any longer. So I did accord ingly. I collected all the women, men and children and extinguished their lives in the deep holes I dumped them into, crushing them with rocks." A.Lalayan, Revolutsionniy Vostok (Revolutionary East) No: 2-3, p.92 vd, Moscow, 1936; Istoricheskie Zapisky No 2, p.101, 1928 written by fehmi colpan, April 15, 2009
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Armenian T. Haçikoğlyan who told that the Dashnaks eradicated thousands of Turks with their bloody hands (T. Haçikoglyan, 10 Let Armyanskoy Sttrelkovoy Divizii,p4-6. İzdatelstvo Polit. Uprav. KKA, Tiflis, 1930) was also a denier and agent of Turkish government. KS Papazian the writer of ‘Patriotism Perverted’ published in 1934, in Boston was also a denier. Because: Papazian critized A. Khatisian and the then prime minister S.Vratzian for not publishing the text of Treaty of Gümrü which they signed on December 2, 1920 to put an end to the war between Turkey and the Armenian Republic on December 2, 1920, which coincided with the entrance of Bolsheviks in Armenia. Papazian also stated that the Armenian prime minister Simon Vratzian applied to the Turkish government on March 18, 1921 and asked military help of the Turks against the Bolsheviks! Even Gourgen Mıgırdıç Yanıkyan (age 7 , the Armenian murderer of Los Angeles prime consul of Turkey Mehmet Baydar (age 49) and the co consul Bahadır Demir (age 30) in Santa Barbara, in 1973, was a real denier, Turkish nationalist and agent of Turkish government. Because he admitted in his trial on June 13, 1973, via his attorney Lindsay that he (Yanıkyan) had been a member of an army made up of 10 000 volunteers to fight against the Turks in Armenia, in the beginning of March 1915 and in chief of this army had been an Armenian general called Andranik. This had been prepared as four parties and had started to battle with the Turks in Iğdır, under the leadership of Russian general Dron and had proceeded to Van, they had occupied Van and meanwhile had destroyed and had fired Turkish villages (Dışişleri Bakanlığı written by aylin atasoy, April 15, 2009
Armenia’s attitude towards Turkey’s land integrity: Article 13 (second paragraph) of Armenian constitution declares the ‘AÄŸrı Mountain’ in the Eastern Anatolia of Turkey, as the state symbol of Armenia . Article 11 of the Armenian Declaration of Independence of August 23, 1990; refers to Eastern Anatolia of Turkey as Western Armenia and as such beholds that this area is part of Armenia. Since the Armenian constitution recognizes as a basis “the fundamental principles of the Armenian statehood and national aspirations engraved in the Declaration of Independence of Armeniaâ€, it likewise accepts the characterization of Eastern Anatolia as Western Armenia and this, albeit indirectly, translates into the advancement of territorial claims. The Armenian politicians and school books call Eastern Anatolia of Turkey, ‘invaded mother land of Armenia’ and in Armenia the school children are being grown up being conditioned to be patriots to rescue their invaded land. Even the marches they sing are about this condition. The Armenians who write in such blogs that the Eastern Anatolia cities do not belong to Turkey, as if the present Eastern boundaries of Turkey was not determined by treaties of Gumru (1920), Moscow (1921) and the whole boundaries by Lausanne (1923) Treaties; after the Turkish Freedom War.
Armen Aivazyan, Director of Ararat Center of Strategic Studies, told a news conference that Armenia must never renounce its territorial claims to Turkey http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=28877 Additionally Armenia refused Turkey’s recurrent offers to commit an agreement declaring that each country recognizes the other country’s land integrity, in 1992 and later. Why do the Armenians force Turkey to accept a genocide? The answer is hidden in a speech of the chief of Dashnak Party Hrant Markaryan who told that their efforts for the recognition of Armenian (so-called) genocide was not an isolated purpose but it was a part of the struggle for rescue of the West Armenia (Armenian Forum Vol2 No 4; Armenian Weekly On-line, 18 June, 4 July 2003). The Armenian then prime minister Andranik Markaryan told that the internationally recognition of (so called) Armenian genocide and demanding land from Ankara as 'compensation' was possible only after Armenia had strengthened and the Armenians should not have told that they demanded land from Ankara loudly and everywhere (Arminfo 26 May 2004). On one occasion President Kocharian stated that since today’s Armenia does not have the clout to advance such demands, doing so should be left to future generations at a time when conditions would hopefully be better suited to this end'. A poll taken in Armenia revealed that almost all youngsters in the Republic of Armenia wished to follow up with land claims from Turkey and 90% of them said Turkey must unequivocally accept genocide allegations (Milliyet - April 11, 2006). The world should not forget that Germany's claim on Zudetland and Gdansk just because they were its historical lands caused burst of World War II! History is full of wars which broke up because of claims of states on their historical lands. Yet, there are obvious evidences showing that the Armenians did not constitute the majority of the population in neither of the Ottoman provinces which the Armenians call Western Armenia and the Muslim population was 3 to 8 times more than that of the Armenian's (Ottoman Population Statistics 1890 and 1914). If an item like the aforementioned Armenian item were present in the lawbook of Mexico claiming that Texas, Arizonna, New Mexico and California which were historical lands of Mexico, belonged to Mexico but invaded, would the American tolerate it? Therefore the world should not overlook Armenia’s aggressivity, which is hidden behind their role of victim and should think about the price of their support to the Armenians very well. So, the most important question which should be asked now is whether the world politicians, journalists and supporters of human rights will go on falling within the scope of Armenian propagandists and go on being major advocates of Armenian aggressivity, while pursuing humanist missions or not! written by elif karacasu, April 15, 2009
Q: Do you remember the names of those committees?
A: Dashnak was the most prominent one. There were others as well, but I don't remember their names now. They received money and gold from Russia and England. Q: Did the Armenians kill many women and children? A: The elderly didn't bother much, but all of their young people were armed. They killed whoever they could corner. They killed them and threw them into the lake or into the fire. For example, a woman was baking bread in a nearby village, and had her young child was at her side. The Armenians went into her backyard and asked her what she was doing. When she answered that she was baking bread, they insisted she needed a kebab as well, and pierced her child and threw him into the fire and burned him alive. What else can I tell you? God knows the extent of what went on. During our escape, we took off on the ships, and stayed around the islands for four days. We couldn't sleep at night because of the wails, crying, and screams we heard all night. These were the cries we heard from surrounding villages: Zeve, Bardakçž, Kalaç, and Molla Kasžm. I hope God ensures that we don't have to relive those days when these ma*sacres took place. Q: Where did you go after the islands? A: From the islands we went to the Dervis village. It took us all day to get there. Ten ships were tied together at the edge of the lake. We were very frightened. In the morning we left toward Tatvan, and finally reached our destination. We were able to rest there, and later left toward Bitlis. Q: Do you remember how many people were with you in your convoy? A: There were between 10 and 20 thousand people in our convoy. Q: Did many people from your convoy die in the exodus? A: Of course. Q: Could you tell us how they died? A: The women couldn't take care of the children. Some would leave them in remote areas. Hunger and disease were rampant. For example, Ömer Efendi wrapped his child in rags and left him alive under a tree as we approached the Bitlis creek. There were many other children like this thrown into the Bitlis creek, or buried when they died. But Ömer Efendi regretted what he did, and a few days later went to retrieve the child and brought him back alive. Q: How long were you a refugee? A: Three years. Q: What did you find when you returned to Van? How was Van, was there much damage? A: I saw Van; it was completely destroyed and burned. When we were in Bitlis, the Deputy Governor Ömer Bey was there. He would regularly receive reports on the situation in Van. We would follow the situation of the Russians from there. One day a soldier, Mansur, came to Bitlis. He was from Halep and used to live near the Norsin Mosque. He was in tears as he told us the story of how they entered Van, and saw that the women were lined up in a row with their head scarves still on. As they approached, they saw that they were impaled and killed. They painfully removed them and buried them. The soldiers left all their work and buried them. They then went to another location where the women had been raped and then killed. There was blood everywhere. written by elif karacasu, April 15, 2009
A similar incident occurred in the Amik village which is close to here. The inhabitants took refuge in the castle and pulled up the ladder when the Armenians arrived. The Armenians approached and convinced them to let down the ladder because they were now friendly and there was no reason to be afraid. As soon as they ascended the stairs, they separated the children and men and threw them down the hill. Some of the women threw themselves from the castle, while the others were taken to an unknown location.
Q: Did you hear about similar incidents at the time? A: Of course I did, but what else can I tell you? Dignity, chastity, and integrity all went out the window. We suffered so much, some people even resorted to cannibalism. But we were so compa*sionate that when we found Armenians hiding on the island, we didn't do anything to them. Q: Were they the Armenians who stayed when you fled? A: No, they were Armenians remaining on the island. During the exodus they brought many Turks to this island and killed them. The ship captains were Armenians. Many of our people were maliciously killed in this way on the ships. As I told you earlier, we couldn't sleep because of the wails in those days. When we left, Van was burning, and it was still burning when the soldier Mansur came. Q: Will you tell us about your situation in Bitlis? A: When we arrived in Bitlis as refugees, they were angry with us because we abandoned Van. Initially the people in Bitlis were not very kind to us, asking us why we ran away and did not fight the enemy. We answered that we had no other choice because we did not have guns or ammunition. Not long after, the population of Bitlis had to flee as well, and they understood our position. The heat was debilitating. There was no food or water. Cholera and disease were spreading. Many people died. One day we saw that vehicles from Elazžg were arriving. The army corps came with Armenian drivers to bring salt to Harput. Q: Were the drivers Armenian? A: Yes, Armenian soldiers who were carrying salt. There was a captain leading them, and my brother approached him and asked him to stay and send a telegraph to arrange for a truck to carry us. We obtained permission from Mustafa Kemal Pasha and they started to transport us toward Diyarbakir. There was neither food nor water on the way. Many people died from diseases. At that time, there was a landowner named Mehmet. He has since died, but he was unique. He had fed the army and its horses for a year, and had given the military the keys to his stables. One year later Mustafa Kemal Pasha came, sat across from him, and asked what they owed him. When he said "for what?", Mustafa Kemal explained that the army had depended on him for a year. He responded that they were welcome to the remaining food. Anyway, when he saw us, he gave the order to set up a feast right away. Bulgur rice, lentils, and meat were prepared and offered. Everyone ate to their heart's content. Let me tell you another story. I saw many of the men who had been tortured by the Armenians with my own eyes. In some places they had no meat on their bones. From hunger they ate human flesh. There was a milkman called Faik whose father was carrying a child when we saw him. When I asked him what he was doing, he said if he didn't carry the child away, they would eat him too. I hope God doesn't make us live through those days again. Hunger and disease left us with nothing. No dignity, chastity, nothing Write comment
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